Quick Question : Why Imap Is Not Supported In Bdis 2010

First of all : Sorry if it's a double post, didn't find a topic with similar subject.


Like the title says,..Why IMAP is not supported in BDIS 2010 Anti-Spam?


I just giving a thought of upgrading to BDIS 2010 (i'm currently using BDIS 2009).


Just like every user did, i read the software manual before i install something ;).


And i found out..surprise,.surprise..why the BDIS 2010 is just supporting POP ? And not IMAP ?


Couple month ago i'm asking the BD customer service about why the anti-spam on Thunderbird is not working at all, and we went all through the procedure to make the anti-spam working (and it never does...and life goes on..i got to accept spam in my life/inbox),


But she/he never even mention/confirming whether i'm using a POP or IMAP...so what i'm thinking right now,..that's must be it !


So here's the question:


1. Is it true that my problem arose because i'm using IMAP (im' not in the mood for experimenting my self,..it just far too many clean install routine i've been through)


2. Will BDIS (any kind of version) will be supporting antispam with IMAP ? If not, why ? Is it technically impossible to create anti-spam with IMAP? ( It's a question, not a complaints :D ).


3. Did i miss read something on the user manual ?(i'm not a native english speaker).


Just a little bit off topic:


1. Can anyone suggest me a great product of anti-spam that i can use for thunderbird ?


2. PM me, since it's prohibited to advertise other brand.


I'm not complaining about others BDIS feature, It's just the anti-spam feature is not the one for me.


Sorry for my english,..i hope you understand what i'm trying to say.

Comments

  • For the sake of forum rules...


    Forget to tell my spec (if it helps):


    Proc : Intel E8400


    Memory : 4 GB Kingston (forgot the type/version)


    HD : 750 GB (don't remember manufacturer)


    MB : Asus P5Q Pro


    mmm what else ? Oh yeah..OS..


    Mail Client : Thunderbird 2.0.0.23


    OS :


    -XP SP3 (x86)->Barely used,..only for old program that has compability issues with Vista


    -Vista Ultimate SP1 (x86)->Main OS (except for the SP2, i always update windows)


    -Vista Ultimate SP1 (x64)->Barely used,.


    Notes :


    -Yep..the anti-spam still doesn't work in BDIS 2010 (Thunderbird, Vista x86).


    So,...can anyone answer my previous question ?

  • D_a_m_n..why i cannot edit my own post ???


    Anyway..here the list program on my Vista x86 :


    Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5 SP1


    2007 Microsoft Office Suite Service Pack 1 (SP1)


    Acronis True Image Home


    Adobe Flash Player 10 ActiveX


    Adobe Flash Player 10 Plugin


    Adobe Shockwave Player 11.5


    Apple Software Update


    Atheros Communications Inc.® AR8121/AR8113/AR8114 Gigabit/Fast Ethernet Driver


    BitDefender Internet Security 2010


    EasyBCD 1.7.2


    EPU-6 Engine


    Foxit Reader


    Free Download Manager 3.0


    GADMEI TVHome Media


    HijackThis 2.0.2


    hkSFV (remove only)


    Hotfix for Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5 SP1 (KB953595)


    Intel® Matrix Storage Manager


    iReboot 1.1.0


    Java 6 Update 16


    Microsoft .NET Framework 1.1


    Microsoft .NET Framework 1.1


    Microsoft .NET Framework 1.1 Hotfix (KB925168)


    Microsoft .NET Framework 1.1 Hotfix (KB929729)


    Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5 Language Pack SP1 - rus


    Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5 SP1


    Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5 SP1


    Microsoft Math Add-in for Word 2007


    Microsoft Office Access MUI (English) 2007


    Microsoft Office Access Setup Metadata MUI (English) 2007


    Microsoft Office Enterprise 2007


    Microsoft Office Enterprise 2007


    Microsoft Office Excel 2007 Get Started Tab


    Microsoft Office Excel MUI (English) 2007


    Microsoft Office Groove MUI (English) 2007


    Microsoft Office Groove Setup Metadata MUI (English) 2007


    Microsoft Office InfoPath MUI (English) 2007


    Microsoft Office OneNote MUI (English) 2007


    Microsoft Office Outlook MUI (English) 2007


    Microsoft Office PowerPoint 2007 Get Started Tab


    Microsoft Office PowerPoint MUI (English) 2007


    Microsoft Office Proof (English) 2007


    Microsoft Office Proof (French) 2007


    Microsoft Office Proof (Spanish) 2007


    Microsoft Office Proofing (English) 2007


    Microsoft Office Publisher MUI (English) 2007


    Microsoft Office Shared MUI (English) 2007


    Microsoft Office Shared Setup Metadata MUI (English) 2007


    Microsoft Office Word 2007 Get Started Tab


    Microsoft Office Word MUI (English) 2007


    Microsoft Save as PDF or XPS Add-in for 2007 Microsoft Office programs


    Microsoft Silverlight


    Mozilla Firefox (3.5.3)


    Mozilla Thunderbird (2.0.0.23)


    MSXML 4.0 SP2 (KB954430)


    MSXML 4.0 SP3 Parser


    NVIDIA Drivers


    NVIDIA PhysX


    QuickTime


    Realtek High Definition Audio Driver


    Security Update for 2007 Microsoft Office System (KB951550)


    Security Update for 2007 Microsoft Office System (KB951944)


    Security Update for 2007 Microsoft Office System (KB969559)


    Security Update for 2007 Microsoft Office System (KB969679)


    Security Update for CAPICOM (KB931906)


    Security Update for CAPICOM (KB931906)


    Security Update for Microsoft Office Excel 2007 (KB969682)


    Security Update for Microsoft Office OneNote 2007 (KB950130)


    Security Update for Microsoft Office PowerPoint 2007 (KB957789)


    Security Update for Microsoft Office Publisher 2007 (KB950114)


    Security Update for Microsoft Office system 2007 (KB954326)


    Security Update for Microsoft Office system 2007 (KB969613)


    Security Update for Microsoft Office Word 2007 (KB969604)


    Sierra Wireless Watcher


    Update for 2007 Microsoft Office System (KB967642)


    Update for Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5 SP1 (KB963707)


    Update for Microsoft Office Outlook 2007 (KB952142)


    Update for Outlook 2007 Junk Email Filter (kb973514)


    USB Safely Remove 4.0


    USB TV Box Driver Setup(version: 5.7.804)


    WinRAR archiver

  • Hello bimbim,


    This question has been asked before on the forum, but on the BitDefender 2009 section: http://forum.bitdefender.com/index.php?showtopic=13338


    If you have other questions related to this matter, please post here.


    Cris.

  • Hello bimbim,


    This question has been asked before on the forum, but on the BitDefender 2009 section: http://forum.bitdefender.com/index.php?showtopic=13338


    If you have other questions related to this matter, please post here.


    Cris.


    Mmm..sorry Cris,...Not exactly an answer i'm looking for..


    Hmm,..


    (can't find the exact words...i'm not very good in English,..)


    Let put another way to say this:


    I recommended to all of my friend, relative about BD.


    In most of the cases (infact almost all of them depend on me to configure their BD).


    Now,..i need to explain to them why the anti-spam is not working.


    I can't just say to them with an answer "Because it can't..."


    But this was along time ago...


    Right now all of my intention is fully curiosity..


    The explanation/answer i was looking for is a bit more technical (just basic), i don't want a super detail technical answer... :P


    Although not extensively, i've done my homework...i already read wikipedia entry about IMAP, and also read the imap sites (www.imap.org)


    And there's no satisfiying explanation about difficulties in realtime scanning in imap at the sites above.


    Today i found quote from another very well known Security Software (i'm pretty relieve that BD is not the only one :))


    .....


    the mails through IMAP gets downloaded in IMAP server, remains there until it gets deleted. So the virus scanning is actually required on the Server side, not the client side(individual computers)


    ......


    This is make me worry....


    Sure i'm not worry right now because in my case, the server side is gmail. I'm sure they put everything they got in their server.


    Sorry for the side story..


    So here i am,..trying to understand how come the anti-spam didn't work.


    I know this is a bit too much too ask,..but there's nothing wrong to expand your knowledge right ?


    Pls don't closed this post, just in case some BD programmer has a free time to explain to me..

  • Pls don't closed this post, just in case some BD programmer has a free time to explain to me..


    BD Programmers don't usually visit this forum, so you'll have to settle with me. :)


    The technical truth is something like this: the IMAP protocol is composed of 2 main parts:


    1. Downloading of the emails' headers
    2. Downloading of the actual email body and attachments (on request, on individual emails)


    Spam and virus scans require the antimalware engine to scan the entire message (header + body). I will try to explain a little how the filtering works on POP, and then I'll mark the differences between POP and IMAP (and why filtering is not feasible on client-side on IMAP).


    So, on POP, the message download and filtering happens something like this:


    1. the email client requests an email from the server
    2. the server send the entire email (header + body + attachments) back to the client
    3. the antimalware and antispam engine captures the server's reply, scans the message (header + body) for spam content and the attachments for spam and malware. If anything is detected, the scanning engine adds a new part in the email's header, marking the email as a threat, then releases the email to the client.
    4. The client finally gets the message and checks the header information. If the header contains malicious tags (set by the scanning engine), then it moves the message to a different folder (the SPAM folder, or to trash)
    5. When the message is successfully received, the server deletes the message (and the message remains stored only on the client)

    6. Basically, the antivirus engine doesn't directly delete or move any emails. It just marks the email in it's header, and the client itself does the rest (by using normal filtering system, which the user can change from the client's options). For instance, BitDefender products automatically add a new filtering rule into Outlook Express, instructing it what to do in case a tagged message arrives:

    post-60-1255196471_thumb.jpg


    On the other hand, on IMAP, the process is different:


    1. the email client requests the new emails list from the server
    2. the servers sends back to the client the requested list, which contains only the emails' headers, not the body/attachments
    3. When the user selects a specific message and chooses to download it, the server sends back to the client only the message body and attachments. The header is not sent again (as it was already sent).
    4. Now... the scanning engine (antispam/antimalware) cannot intercept this transfer, because it's very tricky. The emails cannot be filtered at Step 1, because you just can't make a reliable filtering based only on the header (Subject, sender, destination, and so on...) without checking the mail body/attachments. Also, filtering cannot take place at Step 2 because of multiple reasons:
      1. if the message body is deemed to be spam/malware, then it cannot be market in any way, since the headers cannot be changed (as they were already stored in the client)
      2. even IF the message could be marked somehow, then the message will be changed from it's initial form. The client can check if the received message is the same as the one sent by the server and, in case it isn't (like the case when the message is changed by an antimalware engine), it could be interpreted as message corruption, and the client might discard the message and request it again from the server, which basically will lead nowhere
      3. Another very important reason is this: let's assume that the message CAN be safely marked, the client won't reject it, so on and so forth. However:
        • as I said above, the POP protocol implies that the message is deleted from the server (the server can be instructed to keep the email, but this is a different story... by default, the message is deleted).
        • the IMAP server, on the other hand, does NOT delete the message after it has been downloaded. The IMAP protocol implies that the server and the client are synchronized, and they both have the same list of messages. If the users chooses to delete an email, it deletes it from the client (at which point, the client also send the delete request to the server, which also deletes the email from it's end)

        • SO: assuming the antimalware engine makes a successful filtering, it will still not be able to make anything with the message. Why? Because it cannot change it in any way (it cannot edit it's header, it cannot change the body, it cannot change it's location to move it to a different folder, etc..), for a simple reason: in order to do this, the antimalware engine will have to "talk" directly to the server, to apply the changes directly to the email stored there. And this is impossible, for multiple reasons:
          • first of all, it's illegal (privacy issues)
          • second, it would need authentication information for the server (username, password, server address, port, different security protocols, as TSL/SSL....)
          • third, it might lead to data corruption, since both the client and the scanning engine should connect at the same time to the same server/account
          • and so on, and so forth


    Bottom line, there isn't any way to make a filtering of emails on the IMAP protocol on the client-side. You want further proof? Take a closer look at the screenshot I posted above, and you will see that even Outlook Express clearly states that filtering rules cannot be applied to IMAP and HTTP accounts (HTTP accounts are a different story, which is not subject to the current topic).


    Enough technical information? :)


    Cris.



  • WOW !


    Thx Cris for the extensive explanation :)


    I'm trully gratefull.


    Sorry for the late response,..having trouble with my connection lately.


    Thank you,..thank you...thank you...

  • WOW !


    Thx Cris for the extensive explanation :)


    I'm trully gratefull.


    Sorry for the late response,..having trouble with my connection lately.


    Thank you,..thank you...thank you...


    Well, I'm using IMAP GMAIL on Opera and my BDIS2010 filters spam very well.


    The catch may be the fact that Opera can be set up to download the whole message at once, not just the header and later the body.


    And, as one of my gmail e-mail is targeted on a daily basis with offers and ######, this proves very useful :0


    However, Opera is sometimes a nasty piece of software, so I guess one can live with a little more spam...

  • Nowadays, BD actually does scan email on Imap, and it also tells you which items contains malware. The trouble is, it does so in the following manner:


    ..\Thunderbird\Data\profile\ImapMail\imap.mail.yahoo.com\Sent-2=>(message 1816) in this case for Yahoo.


    However, there is no way to figure out precisely which message this may be referring to.

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