Bad Update Or....? - Solution Here: Http://forum.bitdefender.com/index.php?showtopic=18789

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  • Can't hurt to checl, put look here to see if the folder is actually empty.


    x:\ProgramData\BitDefender\Desktop\Quarantine


    How many apps have the missing file error?


    Thanks, the folder is not empty. There are 88 files in there with a total of about 31 mb...


    And of the 10 apps I opened 4 of them complained about missing dll or exe files.

  • Chimel
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    @_chris_ Check a sample of these files to see if they are already restored: If they were already restored, it might be the reason why they are still in the quarantine folder. Some other users had files seemingly restored, but with a file size of 0 byte, so check also the file sizes in the quarantine and original folders. You can find the original location of these files in the XML file in the quarantine folder.


    I would have expected the patch to get rid of these duplicate files, though, so it may be something else.


    If your operating system is OK and only a few apps fail, then you are mostly OK and don't need to reinstall the OS, maybe only repair/reinstall these 4 apps if you can't find the missing files.


    Hope this helps.


    I finally decided to uninstall BitDefender Antivirus 2010 and see how things go without an antivirus at all. I don't see the use of it for responsible users, there is also nothing in BitDefender that tells me it saved me from so many infections and malware and would encourage me to keep using it. My license still has almost 2 years to go, so I can still reinstall if I need to. In one year, I already wasted at least 20 hours of my life because of BitDefender bugs or interface (before even Saturday's fiasco), so bye for now.

  • @_chris_ Check a sample of these files to see if they are already restored: If they were already restored, it might be the reason why they are still in the quarantine folder. Some other users had files seemingly restored, but with a file size of 0 byte, so check also the file sizes in the quarantine and original folders. You can find the original location of these files in the XML file in the quarantine folder.


    I would have expected the patch to get rid of these duplicate files, though, so it may be something else.


    If your operating system is OK and only a few apps fail, then you are mostly OK and don't need to reinstall the OS, maybe only repair/reinstall these 4 apps if you can't find the missing files.


    Hope this helps.


    Thanks for your reply. I can open the xml files but there is nothing there but whitespace. Maybe that is part of the problem. And the applications that fail to launch clearly state that they can't find the files, otherwise they would have noted that something is broken I think.


    And I didn't test all apps, just 10 of them of which 4 failed to start. There are many more and then there are also a lot of plugins for these apps. So there is probably a lot more that won't work. There are 44 bdq files in the quarantine folder, which probably means that 44 dll or exe files are missing.

  • Chimel
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    @_chris_ Then it may be a bug in the patch tool or BD if there is a discrepancy between the XML file and the actual content of the quarantine folder :(


    I don't know what the bdq files are, Carmen or Corneliu might be able to tell. I'd make a copy of one in a temp folder, renamed as .txt and try to open it with Notepad, to see what's in it, maybe the original location... :)


    So there is 44 bdq files and 44 dll/exe files in your quarantine folder?


    You can try searching your hard disk for the 2 first dll/exe files, to see if they exist in other locations. If that's the case, it may mean that the quarantined files were restored correctly, even if they were not deleted from the quarantine folder.


    When your broken apps show missing files (if it displays the file names), do they match the files in your quarantine folder?


    Make a backup of that quarantine folder in any case, in a different location of the same disk will do.


    Can you confirm that Windows itself is working correctly? That would be a relief.

  • _chris_
    edited March 2010
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    @Chimel Thanks for your reply. Windows is working correctly as far as I can tell :)


    And the quarantine folder contains 44 bdq files and 44 xml files and no exe or dll files, each bdq file has an accompanying xml file, like BDQF_1269100294_229.bdq and BDQF_1269100294_229.xml . I think that bdq stands for "BitDefender Quarantine file" and that these files are some kind of container for the quarantined dll and exe files, which would make sense size wise as they are up to 5 mb. Furthermore I think that the xml files contain information about the bdq files, like where the quarantined file was located.


    The thing is that I can open the xml file but it seems empty, even though they are 600 to 800 bytes in size. So they are either encrypted or damaged. This prevents me from getting any information as to what files are possibly quarantined as I can't see what's inside the files and all files have names like BDQF_1269100294_229 instead of the original filenames :(

  • can anyone tell me how long the rescue cd takes to work? mine seems to freeze up about two minutes into the process, then turns to a black screen after about ten minutes... help!


    i can get to the blue screen that alerts me bd will now restore files, then nothing happens

  • Unknown
    edited March 2010
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    @Dragon Racing If the BitDefender interface does not work, please go to this folder: C:\Users\ All Users \BitDefender\Desktop\ and check if you see a Quarantine folder there (you need to enable the Show hidden files option). If you can not find the folder, then please search for it. If the Quarantine folder is empty (not the same thing as not find the folder altogether) it means that there are no files quarantined by BitDefender and in this case you just need to delete the following registry key from Windows: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\PendingFileRenameOperations Then you can restart Windows and you should be safe.


    Of course, you should do a backup of the data before the restart, just in case ;)

  • @stuGrimson If you are able to login to Windows it means that BitDefender did not erase all the quarantined files and Windows should be ok. But it is possible that the Windows repair process messed up the BitDefender installation along with some other software. If the Windows features are Ok you should either try to reinstall/repair those software as I do not think that a Windows repair will also repair these software. You can also try to use the Windows Restore, but this will also modify any files that you might have in the Documents and Settings folder. Therefore it is best to have a backup if you choose to use the Repair option.

  • @confused_dude Go to Start -> All Programs -> BitDefender -> Repair or Remove and Repair the BitDefender installation. After a restart the new/correct virus signatures should be downloaded.

  • @gokhanT Follow this link and use the Rescue CD in order to repair the Windows installation and that should solve the issue.

  • @MARVIC_NL The Rescue CD is only compatible with English, French, Spanish and German versions of Microsoft Windows. As you are using a Dutch Windows, please use the steps and patch from this link

  • @_chris_ You should try to open the .xml files with Notepad or Wordpad and you will see that the file will contain the name of the file that was quarantined and the folder where it was located. These are the information that are shown in the Quarantine module from the BitDefender interface. Try to see if the quarantined files coincide with the missing ones.

  • Really nice:


    http://www.bitdefender.com/site/VirusInfo/...Reporting/1/wks


    Real-time Virus Reporting - Last 24 hours


    Virus name Infected files


    Trojan.FakeAlert.5 32.55%


    Nice % for the last 24h...


    http://www.bitdefender.com/site/VirusInfo/...Reporting/7/wks


    Real-time Virus Reporting - Last 7 days


    Virus name Infected files


    Trojan.FakeAlert.5 68.69%


    A very aggresive "virus"

  • Upon startup I get these errors:


    bdwizreg.exe - application error


    bdagent.exe - application error


    Windows/system32/NvMcTray.dll


    Windows/system32/NvCpl.dll


    jucheck.exe - app error


    System Restore won't run in Safe mode, also "Search" won't run.

  • @gokhanT Follow this link and use the Rescue CD in order to repair the Windows installation and that should solve the issue.


    even if i delete qurantina files ?

  • _chris_
    edited March 2010
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    @_chris_ You should try to open the .xml files with Notepad or Wordpad and you will see that the file will contain the name of the file that was quarantined and the folder where it was located. These are the information that are shown in the Quarantine module from the BitDefender interface. Try to see if the quarantined files coincide with the missing ones.


    Thanks for your reply. I tried to open the xml files like you described, with notepad, wordpad, notepad++, dreamweaver and even google chrome. And the problem is that there is nothing there but whitespace. Google chrome even gives an error: "error on line 1 at column 1: Document is empty." I've attached one of the xml files so you can see it for yourself.


    I was hoping that there is a way to extract the quarantained files so that I can see if the quarantined file names match the file names of the missing files. And that there would maybe be a general log somewhere in bitdefender which keeps track of bitdefenders actions, like when bitdefender found a virus in a file, where it was located and which actions were taken. I realize that that the chances for the existence of such a log are fairly small because that information was stored in the xml files.

  • Hey guys..heres what I did..I applied the patch that was for Windows 7 x64 (patch_64b_update_issue)...after the restart..everything seemed ok..but after an update...in about 30 secs...I still get the fakevirus.5....can someone please guide me...where am I going wrong with the patch update?


    Your help would be much appreciated..


    Thanks..

  • svbk
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    The same as me, I decided to unistalll BD for some days and wait for the new install file on the http://download.bitdefender.com

  • Hmm..you're right...guess we'll have to wait till the new installer comes through...anyways...i was going to format my laptop someday...did it today,, and installed a fresh copy of x64 bitdefender on it...updates n everything work good (no patches required or anything)...but my desktop(unformatted) - the same issue as i've mentioned earlier...cant format my desktop just yet...so waiting for a new installer would b the best option...


    confused_dude was facing the same problem...n Carmen Cernev replied with a work around...really curious to whether it worked out or not...

  • hi, i've had the problem of fakealert5 ... and i tried the patch, after applying it, i restarted my computer... and after it restarts, everything seems ok, bitdefender internet security 2010 doesn't seem to detect any more fake positives... but after the update, the problem comes back once again... how do you solve it? i can't update the program after applying the patch, if not the problem will arise again.. i've tried for a few times, it's the same, someone please help me...


    @confused_dude Go to Start -> All Programs -> BitDefender -> Repair or Remove and Repair the BitDefender installation. After a restart the new/correct virus signatures should be downloaded


    Hey...did u get BD working with this method? Just curious to know if i should try the same...


    Thanks..

  • Hi,


    I would like a response to my previous posts by a Bitdefender rep. I described the errors I have with one pc. I have another pc affected by the same issue, this one does absolutely nothing, doesn't start into safe mode or anything, not even after running the rescue cd. I would like to know how to fix these.


    Also if the forums are the wrong place to expect some kind of support could anyone point me in the right direction. I'm located in The Netherlands.


    Chris

  • svbk
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    even if i installed it on 23rd march after re-install windows but no success. The problem hasn't been solved

  • soopytwist
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    Wow 82 pages, that's phenomenal.


    Bit Defender has sent me an email explaining a few things about "the incident" but there's no sign of a "sorry". They have given me another 6 month extension to my license though. That's nice but I'm still moving on when it's up.


    I have one seemingly permanent scar from this issue and that is Vistas Programs and Features in Control Panel no longer works. There are many entries in there, games mostly, most of the icons have been given generic system ones and I can't uninstall any of the programs here. I've had to use a program called Ccleaner to uninstall software from my PC since Programs and Features no longer works. I think it could be that the first file to be quarantined on Dooms Day was unwise.exe. Though system restore put everything back something is not quite right, and what else will rear it's ugly head further down the line?


    I am now having to prepare a re-install of Windows after a great deal of backing up. But I'm not putting Vista back on as I have now bought Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit, which I had planned to do when I next had to re-install my PC; I just never expected to do that so soon. I'm probably opening myself up to a whole new world of pain with Win 7 and Bit Defender. In my experience Bit Defender '08, '09 and '10 have never truly worked 100% of the time. Like now for example the scan activity bar never comes back after shutting down and re-booting but I'm used to that, it's one of BD's little quirks.

  • Ok, well I'm back after all this time.


    So I've had a few issues ever since this all went down. Most of which, have been resolved but now I'm dealing with a new issue from the aftermath of all this that, I hope, doesn't force me to have to reinstall Windows 7 all over again. @_@


    I thought that my computer was infected with a virus that was sending out e-mails to my contacts. I later found out that it was my laptop which was unaffected by the update bomb from Bitdefender but this was after I had tried to run a virus scan with BitDefender. Despite the 2 patches (the old one and the more recent one,) I was unable to even start a Virus scan. Bitdefender couldn't do it anymore.


    My comp hasn't exactly been at 100% ever since Bitdefender messed it up but for the most part, you couldn't tell, that is, until today when I decided that since Bitdefender was still damaged (as the Virus Shield wasn't the only thing that wasn't fixed,) I decided to reinstall it which took longer than i should have because apparently, Bitdefender had also done damage to the system permissions within the system registry itself. I had to fix the permissions for my comp to write a registry entry where Bitdefender was trying to write just for the installation to complete.


    After I completed the re-installation, Bitdefender failed to open. 'The program could not be started properly.'


    After a 2nd reinstallation attempt and a failure to open the program again, I decided to just use System Restore and go back to BEFORE I uninstalled BitDefender, but unfortunately, System Restore no longer works. I've tried it both in & out of safe mode and I get the same error:


    "An unspecified error occured during System Restore. (0x8000ffff)"


    So now, I can't even use System Restore to fix my computer anymore NOR can I reinstall Bitdefender.


    My only possible hope now is that the Windows 7 OS CD has a repair function in boot mode (just like the Windows XP OS discs) that'll allow me to repair whatever other system files need to be repaired that weren't restored from quarantine & weren't repaired from the Startup repair and that, hopefully, that'll solve the issue IF it doesn't, I'll have to format my Windows 7 boot drive and reinstall the OS from scratch JUST to get my security working again.

  • L.o.D.
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    Demoblaster, Win7 has a startup repair feature on the cd.


    I think there are a couple other repair options as well.

  • To everyone in here who still has problems. There is a chat option available just go to bitdefender.com and click "my bitdefender" in the top right, sign in, go to "my support," click "contact customer care" and choose "chat" in the "other contact options." They can help.


    Cheers,


    Chris

  • Demoblaster, I think I had the exact same registry problem. I thought I was clear form the mess but when I tried to install a program, right at the end during the registry writing I got a fatal registry error that resulted in my first even win7 blue screen crash. My windows restore wasn't working, but it DID work when I did it from the win7 CD boot! Now i'm hoping everything is back to normal. I will try a reinstall perhaps tomorrow. Time to sleep now.

  • Chimel
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    @D_May, no sign of a "sorry"? Come on, they wrote: "We regret that we put you through this inconvenient experience" in that email.

  • soopytwist
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    @D_May, no sign of a "sorry"? Come on, they wrote: "We regret that we put you through this inconvenient experience" in that email.


    Yeah, they "regret" not they're "sorry", means two completely different things. Which sounds better:


    "We regret that we put you through this inconvenient experience".


    Or


    "We are sorry that we put you through this inconvenient experience".

  • well the patch finally installed without any error messages, but still can't update if I try to update the update window jut sits there doing nothing, and then a windows warning popped up saying the updater had stopped working.


    Now if I try to update the updater just sits there doing nothing and I get this warning:


    BitDefender Wizard Registration has stopped working


    A problem caused the program to stop working correctly. Windows will close the program and notify you if a solution is available


    I am using Vista 64 professional, and BitDefender Game Safe.


    The customer service rep through email doesn't read what I tell him and keeps linking me to the same page over and pver again no matter how many times I tell him i have already done that. Is there still no patch for Game Safe out? or what the email told me to use the patch when it 1st came out, and then some one on here told me there wasn't a patch for Game Safe yet. My computer boot_s fine, with 1 error message. I am really getting frustrated about this. this has been almost a week and I keep getting told different things by different people.

  • Chimel
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    Many companies that sublicensed the antivirus engine from BitDefender are pretty mad: Acronis, BullGuard, the already mentioned Shield Deluxe and others listed on http://www.bitdefender.com/site/view/strat...ationships.html.


    Their customers experienced a longer support reaction from their security suite editors, showing that it's better to stick with the original editor for better support, even if it seemed to come late.

  • Unknown
    edited March 2010
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    stuGrimson: Please try to go to Start -> run -> type sfc /scannow and hit Enter. Use the Windows CD when required.


    gokhanT: Unfortunately, if you deleted the Quarantine folder the Rescue Cd will not be able to restore the files. Have you tried a System Restore?

  • Unknown
    edited March 2010
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    _chris_: In order to replace the missing dll files please go to Start -> Search -> type sfc /scannow -> hit Enter -> use the Windows d when required.


    Regarding the empty xml file, we are currently investigating this situation. This is probably the reason why you were not able to use the patch or the Rescue CD.


    @everyone: here is the direct link for Live Assistance

  • brian_mathew: Please right click on the BitDefender icon from the system tray and click on Update now.


    If the update process does not complete successfully please restart the computer in Safe Mode. Go to Start -> Search -> type services.msc and hit Enter. In th Services window double click on the BitDefender Virus Shield entry and set the Start up type to Disabled. Run the patch again in Safemode.

  • Unknown
    edited March 2010
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    svbk: We inform you that the faulty update signature is no longer on our servers. Therefore, we kindly invite you to reinstall BitDefender.


    Please make sure you are using our uninstall tool in order to remove the previous version.

  • Unknown
    edited March 2010
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    D May: We sincerely apologize for this situation and we are very sorry that we put you through this inconvenient experience. As per the Scan Activity bar, we are aware of this displaying issue and we will try to solve it in the shortest time possible. Meanwhile, please be so kind as to follow the steps from this post.


    Please let us know if you have any questions about the security of your system.

  • Demoblaster:


    Please try to use the System Restore option in Safe Mode.


    You can also use the Windows CD in order to repair the operating system as follows:


    - in Normal mode please go to Start -> type in the Search box sfc /scannow and hit Enter. Use the CD when required


    - follow the steps from this KB article in order to launch Startup Repair using the CD


    Also, before you reinstall BitDefender please make sure you are using our uninstall tool in order to remove all the remaining files, folders and registry keys.

  • chrisjargan: The patch will not be able to restore the Windows files which were already restored by the operating system. Therefore, please open BitDefender, go to the Quarantine list and check if the files listed there already exists in your computer.


    If they are, please go to Start -> All programs -> BitDefender 2008 -> Repair or Remove -> use the Repair function.

  • _chris_: Please tell me, have you tried to restore your system to a previous date, earlier than 20.03.2010?

  • chrisjargan: The patch will not be able to restore the Windows files which were already restored by the operating system. Therefore, please open BitDefender, go to the Quarantine list and check if the files listed there already exists in your computer.


    If they are, please go to Start -> All programs -> BitDefender 2008 -> Repair or Remove -> use the Repair function.


    When I run the repair or uninstall program the repair option is greyed out and cannot be chosen. Also the files still in quarantine aren't system files, there are some Adobe extensions that don't work and I get errors when starting PS, also the ATI control panel is missing the dll for auto-start, the ATI file is no big deal, the Photo shop ones are.

  • When I run the repair or uninstall program the repair option is greyed out and cannot be chosen. Also the files still in quarantine aren't system files, there are some Adobe extensions that don't work and I get errors when starting PS, also the ATI control panel is missing the dll for auto-start, t Photohe ATI file is no big deal, the shop ones are.


    Hi Chris,


    I have read your case posted on this topic and, if it's Ok with you, would like to ask you few questions in order to best assist you on this matter.


    Considering the above please provide me with the following info:


    - what OS (operating system) are you using ?


    - please define: "also the ATI control panel is missing the dll for auto-start" - name of the DLL file ?


    - what error you get when you try to start Photoshop ?


    - any OS error messages ?

  • Hi Chris,


    I have read your case posted on this topic and, if it's Ok with you, would like to ask you few questions in order to best assist you on this matter.


    Considering the above please provide me with the following info:


    - what OS (operating system) are you using ?


    - please define: "also the ATI control panel is missing the dll for auto-start" - name of the DLL file ?


    - what error you get when you try to start Photoshop ?


    - any OS error messages ?


    I am using windows vista 64 bit


    this is the dll file that causes an error on start-up ad2amrdec.dll


    when I open photoshop I get


    This application falied to start because ad2amrdec.dll was not found. Re-installing the application may fix this problem


    it's the same driver


    I get that 6 times, I am assuming it is my extensions trying to load because I can still use photoshop


    and no i don't get any operating system errors, but I do get a


    BitDefender Wizard Registration has stopped working


    A problem caused the program to stop working correctly. Windows will close the program and notify you if a solution is available


    and the windows error reporting box pops up


    my biggest problem right now is that I can not get bit defender to update it self, or repair itself, and I don't know if it is safe to turn Real-Time protection on or not.


    and I haven't been getting any help from the tech who has been contacting me through e-mail.


    I appreciate your help, I have been trying to get someone to answer me who actually reads what my problem is, and it has been incredibly frustrating.


    Sorry for taking so long to respond I was out

  • Chimel
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    @chrisjargan, your BitDefender installation seems to be corrupt, I'd recommend:


    - Make a copy of your quarantine folder (\ProgramData\BitDefender\Desktop\Quarantine on my system)


    - Uninstall BD using their uninstall tool and reboot


    - Reinstall BD (the setup executable will download the latest correct version) and reboot


    - Restore your quarantine folder (if it contained actual dll/exe files)


    - In BD, go to Antivirus|Quarantine, check if you see this file ad2amrdec.dll


    - Select all files and press Restore


    If there are still some valid quarantined files listed (i.e. dll/exe files that are listed or present in the quarantine folder but not in their original location), you should probably use the patch BD released.


    It's normal to see files still listed and generating errors if they were already restored by the OS or BD, ignore those and focus on the ones listed and still missing. At worst, you can restore/copy manually the missing files from the application setup, although there's no telling what you may be missing apart from those that generate visible error messages. I'd just reinstall the failing apps/drivers altogether if there's only a couple.


    It's a good thing that the BD Repair feature was grayed out, as some previous users said Repair resets the quarantine list to blank.


    But certainly turn real-time protection on. Even if you still had the bad update for some reason, you will notice immediately the false positives starting again, and you can turn it off and restore the few quarantined files before it does further damage.

  • Hello all,


    You can find in this announcement a recovery guide for the False Positive - Trojan.fakealert.5.


    Please also access this link in order to read the message from the BitDefender CEO regarding FakeAlert situation.


    Please let us know if we can further assist you with anything else.


    Thank you.

  • Great! None of those solutions worked, but.. after days of lost work time and frustration I've got things running smoothly!


    It's called a CLEAN INSTALL. Thanks for nothing BD. Seriously, you can't blame me for being extremely irritated. I've used some of the wasted time hand writing letters.

  • First of all I want to say that I have been working in IT for over 25 years and have supported and worked in all aspects of PC and IT support in that time.


    I'm sorry to say that I've had enough of BitDefender. I was one of the many that got affected by the March 20th update fiasco. Except that I didn't know it was BitDefender that caused it. The first I knew was when I switched on the PC and it wouldn't boot - just a message about a corrupted .sys file. Using our second PC I trawled the internet for info on what might have caused the problem with this .sys file and ended up completely rebuilding the PC. Lucky for me I've got everything backed-up.


    I would have expected BD to send an email out to all of its registered users warning them of the problem. At least then 1) some users may have been able to prevent the problem occurring and 2) I would have picked up the email on the other PC.


    I'VE HAVE ONLY JUST DISCOVERED BD WAS THE CAUSE OF ALL THE PROBLEMS. Purely by chance on the internet.


    Of course, other products that use the BD scanning software (like Bullfrog) were also affected.


    I've had previous problems with BD 2010 (the last resulted in support telling many of us to 'not scan HTTP traffic' to stop the icon constantly going grey) and, quite frankly, I don't pay good money for a product as flaky as this. The statement from the CEO about the additional testing system and the extra steps in the testing process is great - except maybe these should have already been in place?


    And for the users that have decided to stick with the product - how about offering them a one year (or two) renewal for free?


    Anyway, as I said, I'll be switching to another product in the next few days. It's a shame because BD has many great features and could be a truly great package. But it's let down by poor quality control and ineffective support.

  • L.o.D.
    Options

    Wait, you said your PC wasn't on but as soon as you tried to boot it up, it failed?


    If that is the case, it would not have gotten the bad update in the first place.


    BD would have had to update first before anything started to happen.


    It would have also had to start scanning in realtime before anything happened.


    Something just isn't adding up with this one.

  • Im a gr8 fan of this AV system...I trust my work on it.:)


    I buy this product In market..but there was no net connection for me to use this kind of help u provided in fourm. :P


    lately I got infected with this false fake5 happenin'.


    I was using 64x windows7 and it was worst I've ever seen.:P I lost so much data and very confidential files due to this fake5 I thought update would be good so update it with my friend internet..lately i got this when I don't have online resource.. and was unable to start any of my windows7.so I lost it when I used it...this was the freakout experience for me. <_<


    but now I hope bitdefender team will test each update and then give it online in future.


    my very first line was true when I didn't get this fakealert5. So now on I will be more careful and find solution online rather then banging my head to save my data.


    My best regards for Bitdefender team who always ready for better updates.


    Tobloid.

  • Hello Tobulide,


    We regret that we put you through this inconvenient experience. As you can see in the official message from BitDefender CEO regarding FakeAlert situation we have taken some measures to make sure incidents like this never happen again.


    We have sent you an email with a compensation offer. Please reply to it and let us know if you accept it.


    Thank you.

  • Thanks Carmen Cernev for your respected reply to my post.:thanks:


    with due respect Sir I've lost my data, but whats lost is lost..I don't wanna cover it with any compensation in a positive way. but the good thing is that everyone learn from there mistakes and so do I so I backup my important data regularly now ;) ..its not even ur(bitdefender team) mistake completely. If I've read this topic at the time of destruction I would have been lucky saved.


    at last Thanks every body for there time.


    regards.


    Tobulide.