Compensation For False-positive Of Trojan.fakealert.5?
Comments
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My dear fellow Bitdefender users,
Could we be a little matur.e about this? Some people have suffered more than others and there should be a good compensation. Bitdefender will (I guess) make everyone (most of us) happy (I hope). I lost 14 hours myself of figuring out, checking 15 PC's and repair.
Situation before Trojan.Fakealert.5
Bitdefender is a good product and rated very well. A lot of us love(d) this product. Right?
Than came Trojan.Fakealert.5- Fact: Bitdefender messed up not testing the update
- Lesson to learn: It would have been nice to get an e-mail immediately to tell me there is "something wrong and they are working on it" and what to do in the meanwhile. => keeping the users informed every xx minutes
- Because of point 2 Bitdefender will (I hope/guess) compensate and will make most affected users happy again.
- Everyone can make errors but some are not tolerated (like this one).
- If you throw away a good product because they made an error ... what would life be if everyone would think so. We would have nothing left.
- I didn't over-react and started re-installing PC's ... I waited. I trusted Bitdefender that there would be a solution soon. So I just disabled anti-virus and restored the quarantined files manually.
- Today ... the solution is there and happily for me ... no real harm was done. Over-reacting and immediately re-install PC's is ... not such a good idea (sorry)
After the disaster
The show must go on and Bitdefender will recover and learn about this case.
LESSON 1, 2 and 3 => Communication, communication and communication.
Compensations could be:- Free 3 extra years license for all affected people
- Refund
- Maybe in some cases a payment of some kind of fee
For all the people who doesn't like the above text
Keep in mind that computers cost time all the time. Many things can go wrong. Data can be lost and costs lots more than this error.
However, I still trust Bitdefender and will stay. I go for compensation 1.
Kind Regards
Filips Houbrechts
IT Consultant
I agree with everything you say except that BitDefender is a good product and I reverse #2 and #1 because it isn't a good product. Spot on everything else though. GJ.0 -
A lot of people are not very computer savvy they might not have grown up with computers all there life's. Some people just use there computer to get on the internet so when they see all these file infected they get scared and might clean out the quarantine.
As for the fact that windows replaces these files after the original is quarantine is half true. It replaces it with a file that has the same name but nothing is there it is a 0kbs file. Once the originals are deleted or the computer is restarted the problem gets worse depending on how many files were flagged.
Lucky for me i know what im doing with a computer so i quick check and i shut off Bitdefender right away. I restored the quarantine files and got my computer running but i still had some problems running certain programs on windows. After that i just restored a hard drive image backup from a couple of weeks ago and no harm done except a couple hours of my time. It could have been worse if i didn't keep hard drive images or have a separate drive for important files. I uninstalled bitdefender and am currently using another program.
Everyone has to remember that everyone is different in what they do and what they know so the situation is different for everyone.
I just want a full refund for bitdefender so i can switch to another program. i have 300 days left on my subscription i just want a full refund for the year that i paid. i understand that false positives happen, but it should have not been this bad with it quarantining files from windows and crashing computers. I have seen it happen before with other software but it would only do a few files and they wouldn't be important files or just files for a certain program never windows files.
I think bitdefender needs to do a little bit more testing on stuff before they send it out as updates and need to work better informing people of the problem and how to fix it. I sent an email to customer service for a refund, just give me my money back for the year and im gone.0 -
TheBigPJ, I am just curious as to how many computers you are running that you are not capable of maintaining in any way?
That is how you come off with calling an IT guy at 2AM.
BTW, how are you guys having BD delete files when no such setting exists that I can find?
In regards to windows files being quarantined, they were automatically replaced by windows which is why they cannot be restored. They already were. That's how windows works.
As for 3rd party apps, a simple reinstall/repair would fix them.
As for those that lost personal data etc, why did you fail to make backups if they were that important to begin with?
LOL. Another fanboy in *denial*. I quote, "how are you guys having BD delete files when no such setting exists I can find". Are you serious or have you been drinking the bitdefender Kool Aid?
Answer me this, "How are you guys having legitamate system files marked as a virus, where no such setting exists I can find?", or how about "How are you guys having Bitdefender, an anti-virus product mark itself as a virus when no such setting exists?". See what I did there?
Has it occured to you that maybe the reason people are getting lost files is that the system is malfunctioning? Clearly it is not operating within its designed parameters is it! So why is it so hard for you to accept the FACT that people are losing files?
You make some simplistic assertions based on your limited knowledge or opionion of how the system is supposed to work. Clearly it's not working as it is supposed to, people are losing files. Just because you have not lost files or it falls outisde of your understanding, does not negate the reality that this is happening.
Another common falicy is to stop at the first problem/error found and then assume that this is the error that was causing the problem, or that there are no more errors. Have you ever worked seriously in support or programming? Are you so arrogant that you can dismiss the reality of what people are experiencing based on your oppionion or limited understanding?
As for a lawsuit, well good luck in places such as the UK. However, in Germany you cannot simply "write away" as it were people's rights by getting them to sign a set of Terms and Conditions. If you read the TC of BD (espcically in UK) you will no doubt find that they waive any liability due to loss of data, damage etc. This does not necessarily mean that it will stand up in a court of law, it may be that someone could press a case.0 -
My dear fellow Bitdefender users,
Could we be a little matur.e about this? Some people have suffered more than others and there should be a good compensation. Bitdefender will (I guess) make everyone (most of us) happy (I hope). I lost 14 hours myself of figuring out, checking 15 PC's and repair.
Situation before Trojan.Fakealert.5
Bitdefender is a good product and rated very well. A lot of us love(d) this product. Right?
Than came Trojan.Fakealert.5- Fact: Bitdefender messed up not testing the update
- Lesson to learn: It would have been nice to get an e-mail immediately to tell me there is "something wrong and they are working on it" and what to do in the meanwhile. => keeping the users informed every xx minutes
- Because of point 2 Bitdefender will (I hope/guess) compensate and will make most affected users happy again.
- Everyone can make errors but some are not tolerated (like this one).
- If you throw away a good product because they made an error ... what would life be if everyone would think so. We would have nothing left.
- I didn't over-react and started re-installing PC's ... I waited. I trusted Bitdefender that there would be a solution soon. So I just disabled anti-virus and restored the quarantined files manually.
- Today ... the solution is there and happily for me ... no real harm was done. Over-reacting and immediately re-install PC's is ... not such a good idea (sorry)
After the disaster
The show must go on and Bitdefender will recover and learn about this case.
LESSON 1, 2 and 3 => Communication, communication and communication.
Compensations could be:- Free 3 extra years license for all affected people
- Refund
- Maybe in some cases a payment of some kind of fee
For all the people who doesn't like the above text
Keep in mind that computers cost time all the time. Many things can go wrong. Data can be lost and costs lots more than this error.
However, I still trust Bitdefender and will stay. I go for compensation 1.
Kind Regards
Filips Houbrechts
IT Consultant
@jando well written & very correct.
However, I personally would like to see BD offer choices of compenesation. Either A or B & in provable extenuating cases, perhaps adding C
I would like to hear from a BD executive personally as prior to this issue, I had been fighting with them for 4 weeks now in regards to getting the backups to work properly after upgrading to TS 2010...... 4 weeks.... no backup.... then this issue..... I would like to hear what a BD representative has to say about this!0 -
My dear fellow Bitdefender users,
Could we be a little matur.e about this? Some people have suffered more than others and there should be a good compensation. Bitdefender will (I guess) make everyone (most of us) happy (I hope). I lost 14 hours myself of figuring out, checking 15 PC's and repair.
Situation before Trojan.Fakealert.5
Bitdefender is a good product and rated very well. A lot of us love(d) this product. Right?
Than came Trojan.Fakealert.5- Fact: Bitdefender messed up not testing the update
- Lesson to learn: It would have been nice to get an e-mail immediately to tell me there is "something wrong and they are working on it" and what to do in the meanwhile. => keeping the users informed every xx minutes
- Because of point 2 Bitdefender will (I hope/guess) compensate and will make most affected users happy again.
- Everyone can make errors but some are not tolerated (like this one).
- If you throw away a good product because they made an error ... what would life be if everyone would think so. We would have nothing left.
- I didn't over-react and started re-installing PC's ... I waited. I trusted Bitdefender that there would be a solution soon. So I just disabled anti-virus and restored the quarantined files manually.
- Today ... the solution is there and happily for me ... no real harm was done. Over-reacting and immediately re-install PC's is ... not such a good idea (sorry)
After the disaster
The show must go on and Bitdefender will recover and learn about this case.
LESSON 1, 2 and 3 => Communication, communication and communication.
Compensations could be:- Free 3 extra years license for all affected people
- Refund
- Maybe in some cases a payment of some kind of fee
For all the people who doesn't like the above text
Keep in mind that computers cost time all the time. Many things can go wrong. Data can be lost and costs lots more than this error.
However, I still trust Bitdefender and will stay. I go for compensation 1.
Kind Regards
Filips Houbrechts
IT Consultant
Well said, I still dont support the compensation though, as in the end its up to people to backup their data for things like this, we dont live in a perfect world, people make mistakes, and BD will learn by this and better the method they release their updates, making it even a better product than what it allready is.
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In all the years (since 1980) that I've used a PC at work and at home, this is the first time that I've ever even thought I was infected, so the experience was new to me. It didn't occur to me to stop BitDefender when it said I had so many infected files -- everything I touched, in fact. I trusted the program to know what it was doing. Being trusting, I ran a scan on my machine which was when it came back and quarantined large chunks of my OS to the point that when I got out of the scan and it told me to reboot to finish "fixing" my system, too much of Vista 64 was in quarantine and I had to reinstall.
Yesterday I was hot. My husband wrote code for over 45 years, so I know something about testing. Someone at BD was unconscionably careless with that update. However, not having having yet had my face-to-face with my Creator, I don't personally know anyone who is perfect. At this moment, I don't know whether I feel more sorry for those of us who got burned (maybe we should get t-shirts made up: "I got BIT by BitDefender") or for BD for what this is going to do to their reputation.
I will very likely stay with BD for the simple reason that there is no antivirus vendor on the planet to whom something like this might not happen in the future, so moving is absolutely no guarantee of future avoidance.
I also believe it is likely that the people at BD have just learned a very costly lesson about testing that few, if any, other vendors have learned. Unless there is complete staff turnover, I'll bet you dollars to donut holes that testing has just become Priority 1 at BD and nothing like this will ever happen again. (If it does, the company will go down in flames, and deservedly so.)
I think that, for those of us willing to stay with them, BD should offer some free software/free subscriptions for at least a year.
For those who have lost all confidence, a refund would be appropriate.
I also agree with those who have outlined things that BD needs to do to improve the operation of the app and notification of users in case of future "errors"
Anyone who wants compensation for the time and money spent reinstalling software, work lost, etc. -- well, much as I understand the wish, I've never heard of any company being held liable to that extent on anything that wasn't a class-action suit, and I seriously doubt, from my non-lawyer point of view, that there are grounds for such here.
I learned several valuable (and time-expensive) lessons out of this.- I learned how to reinstall Vista and what the effects will be if I decide to upgrade to Win7 as far as how it will "save" my old settings (not very well) and such.
- I learned how truly happy I am that nearly all my data is stored on a network storage device. I did it years back so I can get to files from any machine, but it sure was handy here!
- I learned that I want to improve the back-up schedule on that network device, because suddenly a weekly backup doesn't seem adequate.
- I learned that I want to explore the sort of back-up utility that mirrors my OS so I can just reinstall everything at the drop of a hat.
- I learned that I need to find a couple other antivirus apps to hold in reserve so that if I ever again get the appearance of an infection, I can get a second opinion. I'd do that if the doctor told me I was ill, why didn't I think of it for my PC?
Do I wish this hadn't happened? Sure. Do I wish I'd been less trusting or more knowledgeable about what to do when all those files started to show up as infected? You betcha! But life is a learning experience, and for me to have had a better response, I'd have had to have been through something like this before. Now I have been. And ain't I positively tickled to find that it was only an error and not a real virus that could have truly infected all sorts of files!!0 -
Brunt, since I use default settings, I never knew about that delete setting. So drop the attitude.
Did I EVER deny there was an major problem?
No!
Did I ever say anything about the system working as it should?
No!
But you have to wonder why anyone would allow a program to delete a file without trying to fix it first.
But since people did allow files to get auto-deleted, that was their undoing.
So, since you're on a tirade to ###### at me, you must think it's ok to auto delete files without checking them first.
The first course of action when out of no where, regardless of the AV used, would be to disable realtime protection.
Especially if you haven't done anything to even get infected to begin with.
The one thing that confuses me is the fact that people that are not computer savvy, were savvy enough to change advanced settings for BD to begin with.
If you trusted BD to know what it was doing, why change the advanced settings?
Just curious.0 -
Brunt, since I use default settings, I never knew about that delete setting. So drop the attitude.
Did I EVER deny there was an major problem?
No!
Did I ever say anything about the system working as it should?
No!
But you have to wonder why anyone would allow a program to delete a file without trying to fix it first.
But since people did allow files to get auto-deleted, that was their undoing.
So, since you're on a tirade to ###### at me, you must think it's ok to auto delete files without checking them first.
The first course of action when out of no where, regardless of the AV used, would be to disable realtime protection.
Especially if you haven't done anything to even get infected to begin with.
The one thing that confuses me is the fact that people that are not computer savvy, were savvy enough to change advanced settings for BD to begin with.
If you trusted BD to know what it was doing, why change the advanced settings?
Just curious.
If it is so "wrong" to auto-delete files, why does Bit Defender have such option???
Maybe you should have warned the thousands who had that setting to not have it in case BD started putting windows and it's own files in quarantine.
Frankly... you're just provoking people here.0 -
TheBigPJ, I am just curious as to how many computers you are running that you are not capable of maintaining in any way?
That is how you come off with calling an IT guy at 2AM.
I did not call an 'IT guy' at 2am - it was much, much earlier on. (That was sarcism towards that rude person) I have always told my family members when something goes wrong try a restart. Which ultimately ended up in a loop of restarts - a tool thing ran automatically, but it only gave the option to restart them. It was prime time for them using there laptops/pc.
In my experience if something this severe happens you call someone to help. Which I did. The computer I use I did not restart - I followed the instructions on here. I have yet to restart - I am going to back up all my files before I even think to restart. I know of these forums after trying to find out why in vista would not recognise bitdefender as a virus scanner - of which I had never got an answer for. Even after asking for support via email.
So far after reading the forums calling the 'IT guy' was the right thing to do, as some people are still reporting that there windows 7 will still not turn on.0 -
I believe that this Thread is opened for joint coordination about appropriate compensation for the problems created by "malware update".
I know that many people are angry at BitDefender software, because it is the cause for crashing their 64-bit OS. But there is no problem that can not be resolved. As the same situation happend to me, I noticed that the "malware update" place in quarantine system files, many program files and BitDefender files, while other data were safe. So I suppose that If same thing happened to you, you can restore important data without any problem either by yourself or with the help of IT support. Only if you did not format a HDD.
But since the Bitdefender software should prevent something like that to happens, it is clear that for such mistakes they are obliged to offer appropriate compensation.
As Jens H nicely explained, there are only three ways to fix something like that.
1. Refund dissatisfied customers who do not want to use the BitDefender software
2. For Those who wish to continue using BitDefender there should be a compansation by adding a free 1 year license of their product
3. Any other costs for system repair by IT experts, have to be taken over by BitDefender. (Of course you need to have appropriate evidence)
I believe that BitDefender has a log file for all of us who have downloaded malware update and what OS do we use. Therefore, it should not be a problem, after logging into account on BitDefenders website, to separate freebie hunters from people who were really affected by this error.
I personally think that we are learning from mistakes and that the boys from BitDefender Team are aware of that. So I believe that Bitdefender will become better than before, after this error.0 -
I agree with Jens H.
In addition, I want to point out a few things:
1) The half-hearted apologies made on the website are, mildly put, meager and sound like an cover-up!
2) The root of the problem is not mentioned anywhere: how come a destructive update like this is beeing send out without any upfront testing at all? The blunder should have been obvious the moment you test it on a machine running a x64 OS. Ergo: either testing of updates is not performed at all, or the testing procedures are worthless!
I was one of the lucky ones and got away with no damage to my OS & files, and lost only part of my weekend to repair the effects of this major blunder. However, my trust in the Bitdefender product has sunk to such a level you'd have to hire an excavation team to find it. A refund will not restore this. The major problem here is the way Bitdefender handled this crisis. In my opinion it was a showcase off lacking or non-existing internal procedures combined with a very poor crisis management protocol. Communication was late in responding, and when it started the answers were often unclear, leaving a lot of people wondering what to do next. I know a couple of techs did their best to help people in the forum, but to me it seemed like they were running around like chickens with a fox in the henhouse because they did not have a procedure or crisis protocol to cling to.
And since I've had a similar experience with a Bitdefender update before (http://forum.bitdefender.com/index.php?showtopic=16543), I'm seriously doubting the learning capabilities of the Bitdefender Corporation.
So, for compensation? Still doubting.
Unless Bitdefender comes up immediately with a clear and concise explanation about how this could have happened in the first place, and more important, what they are going to do to prevent this from happening again, I'm thinking about a refund along the lines Jens H described. And this time I will not be satisfied with some vague promises that this will not happen again: I want to see which measures are being taken to prevent this, verifiable by e.g. a testing-protocol and crisis procedure published on the Bitdefender website!
Yannis0 -
Nice post Sarah451. Indeed, we learn from this.
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I am amazed at how kind people can be about Bit Defender.
I pay top dollar for this software to protect my valuable data. Instead as a result of owning the software my computer deleted itself to death along with all of my other paid for softwares and documents that can not be replaced. Never mind the time, hassle and effort involved.
The worst part, if I was issued an email warning me not to go online then it would have poped up on the blackberry and the problem avoided. While my PC chewed its way through my documents (thinking i was being protected from a monster virus) after finally getting through to the help desk the response is ... "yeah we know.. turn off your computer".
Day later - still no idea if it is safe to turn on the home computer, no email, no sms, no nothing.
I dont want their money, I just want a sorry, my money back quickly and management to be sacked for lack of Quality Control0 -
If it is so "wrong" to auto-delete files, why does Bit Defender have such option???
Maybe you should have warned the thousands who had that setting to not have it in case BD started putting windows and it's own files in quarantine.
Frankly... you're just provoking people here.
Ever since I started using & building my own computers back in 1996, I have never used the auto delete feature of any app.
I don't agree with it being an option & because of that usage, many people are still having issues.
I don't deny nor have I ever denied that there was an issue.
TheBigPJ, but how many machines do you have?0 -
As for my self, I have 3 licences for another 524 days.
Last time when I spent several hours figuring out what is wrong with my computer, only to discover that bitdefender is causing the errors, I have also tried to ask for refund.
Official response was:
If they can fix it, they don't give you your money back.
So this time I am removing BD from one of my computers (one that I turn on, on weekends).
They do major screw ups on weekends over at BD. And I am waiting for 524 days to pass 
and then goodbye 
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Like many of you, I got caught. However, in a sense I was lucky, because about 10 years ago I got anpther virus (between the time it circulated and my next update). On that occasion, as on this, I noticed unexpected things happening and switched off FAST. I then cam back on line with Linux to discover what had happened.
What astonished me - and still does, is that once they discovered they'd got a big problem, the BD team didn't IMMEDIATELY put up a banner in large letters in the middle of their front page to warn people. on every country's website. For example, the last time I went to the .co.uk website, the "warning" was tucked away in "news". When someone sees their system files being quarantined as soon as they are being used, they aren't in the mood to wander around the BD site, they need immediate, obvious and clear instructions. "Switch off real time protection, NOW and DON'T turn off the computer" if that was the best answer. That would have saved most people most of the hassle they've had. It would also help if there were much better linking to these forums, I'd have been really panicking if I'd not discovered them yesterday.
Although I lost quite a lot of system files, and Windows wouldn't reboot, I was able to restore it from my installation DVD and then recover a couple of lost files from my backup. (There were very few, because I switched off fast).
In general, I have quite a few criticisms of the way in which BD works, finding some aspects of the user interface very clunky, but that's probably because I WILL insist on trying to be in control of what my antivirus sox does.
As for threatening class action, I guess we need to read the small print that has been on every piece of software every since Bill Gate's lawyer father found the way to weasel around the normal "consequential loss" legislation that was normal when DOS first came out. No software company takes any responsibilty for loss of data, and in installing the software, we click/sign an undertaking that we agree. So WE have no claim. As to what BD should do next - if the good people there want to regain the sorely battered confidence of their customers, they should rapidly discuss what to do, and come up with something fairly effective. Otherwise.... IMO they might as well shuit up shop.
Ian (not a happy bunny).0 -
Brunt, since I use default settings, I never knew about that delete setting. So drop the attitude.
Did I EVER deny there was an major problem?
No!
Did I ever say anything about the system working as it should?
No!
But you have to wonder why anyone would allow a program to delete a file without trying to fix it first.
But since people did allow files to get auto-deleted, that was their undoing.
So, since you're on a tirade to ###### at me, you must think it's ok to auto delete files without checking them first.
The first course of action when out of no where, regardless of the AV used, would be to disable realtime protection.
Especially if you haven't done anything to even get infected to begin with.
The one thing that confuses me is the fact that people that are not computer savvy, were savvy enough to change advanced settings for BD to begin with.
If you trusted BD to know what it was doing, why change the advanced settings?
Just curious.
LOD you are just proving my point more and more. You just can't resist jumping to conclusions can you. How can I get this across to you, the product is not working as intended, and again incase you missed that, the product is not working as intended.
I tried to point out to you above the common fallicy of finding an error/issue and then jumping to conclusions.
This does not seem to stop you from saying, "But since people did allow files to get auto-deleted, that was their undoing. So of course your assuming that since this setting exists to delete files, this must be what caused the files to be deleted? So for example, the washing machine flooded the room; the technician found a faulty door hatch, ergo it must have been the hatch the caused the leak? This then stopped him from checking the rubber sealing, which was the real cause of the issue, or was it rust in the chamer, do you see?. Also what is your obsession with blaming the user?
You then go on to say, " the fact that people that are not computer savvy, were savvy enough to change advanced settings for BD to begin with. If you trusted BD to know what it was doing, why change the advanced settings?". Again, blaming the user, and making assumptions based on limited knowledge as to why they lost their data. People lost their data who did not change this setting! This is YOUR assumption, can I make it any clearer?
LOD, I don't hate you or wish to tirade against you, but you are just denying people have issues, making assumptions, blaming users. Users have every right to be annoyed with you at this point, and moreover, point out the flaws in what you are saying. It sounds to me as if you are a young techie used to jumping to conclusions, try to be more open minded as to what the problems could be and stop blaming users!0 -
You are putting words into my mouth, Brunt.
I never once stated that BD was working as it should.
I got the same issue, other than windows getting killed off.
Yes, BD screwed up bad. I never denied that.
BUT, the fact still remains that only those that did use the auto delete have gotten their windows killed.
There's no denying that. I don't even agree with that setting existing to begin with.
How are they losing data if the data in question is not getting deleted to begin with then?
You gotta wonder why registry repair tolls ALWAYS ask if you are sure you want it to fix/delete entries before it does anything.
Just because a setting is offered, does NOT mean that it's a 100% infallible option to use.
I also never once stated that the user was to blame.0 -
My dear fellow Bitdefender users,
Could we be a little matur.e about this? Some people have suffered more than others and there should be a good compensation. Bitdefender will (I guess) make everyone (most of us) happy (I hope). I lost 14 hours myself of figuring out, checking 15 PC's and repair.
Situation before Trojan.Fakealert.5
Bitdefender is a good product and rated very well. A lot of us love(d) this product. Right?
Than came Trojan.Fakealert.5- Fact: Bitdefender messed up not testing the update
- Lesson to learn: It would have been nice to get an e-mail immediately to tell me there is "something wrong and they are working on it" and what to do in the meanwhile. => keeping the users informed every xx minutes
- Because of point 2 Bitdefender will (I hope/guess) compensate and will make most affected users happy again.
- Everyone can make errors but some are not tolerated (like this one).
- If you throw away a good product because they made an error ... what would life be if everyone would think so. We would have nothing left.
- I didn't over-react and started re-installing PC's ... I waited. I trusted Bitdefender that there would be a solution soon. So I just disabled anti-virus and restored the quarantined files manually.
- Today ... the solution is there and happily for me ... no real harm was done. Over-reacting and immediately re-install PC's is ... not such a good idea (sorry)
After the disaster
The show must go on and Bitdefender will recover and learn about this case.
LESSON 1, 2 and 3 => Communication, communication and communication.
Compensations could be:- Free 3 extra years license for all affected people
- Refund
- Maybe in some cases a payment of some kind of fee
For all the people who doesn't like the above text
Keep in mind that computers cost time all the time. Many things can go wrong. Data can be lost and costs lots more than this error.
However, I still trust Bitdefender and will stay. I go for compensation 1.
Kind Regards
Filips Houbrechts
IT Consultant
@Jando: you made a valid point there: this is definitely something that we are learning from; interesting points about compensation, thanks.
I'll keep you updated on this.0 -
You are putting words into my mouth, Brunt.
I never once stated that BD was working as it should.
I got the same issue, other than windows getting killed off.
Yes, BD screwed up bad. I never denied that.
BUT, the fact still remains that only those that did use the auto delete have gotten their windows killed.
There's no denying that. I don't even agree with that setting existing to begin with.
How are they losing data if the data in question is not getting deleted to begin with then?
You gotta wonder why registry repair tolls ALWAYS ask if you are sure you want it to fix/delete entries before it does anything.
Just because a setting is offered, does NOT mean that it's a 100% infallible option to use.
I also never once stated that the user was to blame.
LOD, even though you did not say directly that the user was to blame, it is implied in your messages. For example 'BUT, the fact still remains that only those that did use the auto delete have gotten their windows killed.' You may not be blaming users but you're saying that anyone using this BD feature had the delete file(s) issue and therefore the implication is that they are responsible for having turned on this feature.
I think you are trying to be helpful but it is not always coming off as such.
Finally, you should read Brunt's post again. There were some words of wisdom in there.0 -
In regards to the compensation email that we have sent, are they still replying t those as I have not received a reply.
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@Jando: you made a valid point there: this is definitely something that we are learning from; interesting points about compensation, thanks.
I'll keep you updated on this.@jando well written & very correct.
However, I personally would like to see BD offer choices of compenesation. Either A or B & in provable extenuating cases, perhaps adding C
I would like to hear from a BD executive personally as prior to this issue, I had been fighting with them for 4 weeks now in regards to getting the backups to work properly after upgrading to TS 2010...... 4 weeks.... no backup.... then this issue..... I would like to hear what a BD representative has to say about this!
And any comment on this little additive Valentin?0 -
I am losing patience with this L.o.D. and there is another user now -> Bloke , why is the Bitdefender team tolerating these people here? They are doing more damage than solving the problem. You can advice people to take backups but these people's condescending attitude is not serving anyone. I request the Bitdefender team to throw these people out. They are deepening the agony of the users who have suffered. This is a sincere request. Many users haven't taken backups for whatever reasons, they don't have a backup doesn't mean that Bitdefender have been absolved from the responsibility of this mess.
That said I would like to say that I haven't completely lost trust in Bitdefender products. I see this as a human error and could have happened to any product. Check the link below to see what I mean. They have done a tremendous job in the past three or four years to earn their spot in the top three security products. I believe that they will take necessary actions to avoid a repeat. I request the team to make available to public the steps taken to avoid such a massive error. I also request them to appoint better moderators in their forums and support teams. Above all the team should recognise the damage happened to many users and compensate them in every way possible.
The link (I request the mods to remove if this is inappropriate)
_http://news.cnet.com/Kaspersky-inadvertently-quarantines-Windows-Explorer/2100-1002_3-6223836.html0 -
"OK dude, your BD didn't leave any serious damage, good for you, what's your point for the rest of us who have been reinstalling all the software?"
@Midnight Rain
wow, i will have to spell this out for you because obviously once again you didn't "think before you type". Seems to be a common trend for you. So...
You said that they have a solution to handle ALL (i will repeat it for you, ALL) the other problems. How are Bitdefender going to undelete files that their application deleted and ensure that the software on my pc will work again. The answer is simple, they can't. How will they ensure all peoples PC's can boot up again. THe answer is simple, the can't. If you think "Reinstall the software" is a solution, or "Format your PC" is a solution...shame!!!! You might as we just say "Kill all people living with aids because then we wont need a cure once the have been eradicated". That is my point.
So once again Midnight Rain, "think before you type".0 -
You may not be blaming users but you're saying that anyone using this BD feature had the delete file(s) issue and therefore the implication is that they are responsible for having turned on this feature.
Then who would you say is responsible for turning on a feature on YOUR machine?0 -
Then who would you say is responsible for turning on a feature on YOUR machine?
So are you then blaming the user? I thought you just posted 'I also never once stated that the user was to blame.'?0 -
And what about the other Serious problems users are having for Months/Year (s)?
For example :
Bitdefender Services Are Not Responding. Please Restart... and the vsserve.exe hogging the CPU0 -
QUOTE (yiata @ Mar 21 2010, 01:19 PM)
You may not be blaming users but you're saying that anyone using this BD feature had the delete file(s) issue and therefore the implication is that they are responsible for having turned on this feature.
Then who would you say is responsible for turning on a feature on YOUR machine?
The user is responsible for turning it on of course, but then in essence what you are saying is the following to give another example.
If you are involved in an accident because some drunk driver skipped a red traffic and crashes into your car, it is your fault because you chose to drive your car down a particular road at a particular time.0 -
Then who would you say is responsible for turning on a feature on YOUR machine?
Answer the question.
Who is responsible for enabling a feature on your machine?
Did BD turn it on for you or did you?
Only the end user can turn these advanced features on & that is what my point is!
Bottom line is that with computers, deleting a file before being 100% sure about it is not good.
If that were the case, then registry cleaners would never prompt for a backup first.
Since my thread has gotten so flooded with ######-fests & flamefests, I have only seen the users that enabled that feature lose any data.
Also, no one answered when I asked that those that did NOT turn it on as to how they lost data?0 -
Please do not flame, and, as much as possible to keep the discussion in a normal manner. An announcement will be posted soon in regards of the compensation of the users who were affected by this matter.
Thank you all for understanding and your patience !
P.S All flaming posts will be edited.0 -
Anytime that you allow an antivirus or an antimalware tool auto delete a file, that file will make the associated program to cease functioning due to a missing file.
THAT is why it makes me wonder why people would willingly allow files to be auto deleted.
People need to realize this.
That auto delete feature is really only intended for people with a strong knowledge of computers.
Yes, there could be a warning with it.0 -
For the non-Tools out there, we are all in agreement that receiving a refund for the defective product is completely reasonable.
Ignore the tools and fanboys who are happy to take it for 'the team.'
I didn't pay for this 'service.'
Simply refund our money and we'll happily go away, but I'm not putting that POS back on my machine and I'm not going to go without AV software for another 300 days. I wouldn't be asking for my money back if your product didn't become a virus and eat my machine from the inside out.
The users didn't do this and it is abhorrent that there are people on here actually blaming people for what BitDefender did with their update.
Everyone needs to stick together on this and not accept anything less than a full refund if you don't want their software running on your machines, like myself.0 -
My post about using the auto delete feature was to point out a bad decision when it comes to using tools like this.
It's not blaming the user for killing their system.
BD did that with a bad update.
I never disagreed on that.
I also never disagreed with getting compensation for this either.0 -
In regards to the compensation email that we have sent, are they still replying t those as I have not received a reply.
We are and will continue to reply on the emails. There are several options that we are assessing upon right now based upon the feedback we have received from you. You can continue to send the emails as initially mentioned, although it may take longer to process.
Thanks.0 -
We are and will continue to reply on the emails. There are several options that we are assessing upon right now based upon the feedback we have received from you. You can continue to send the emails as initially mentioned, although it may take longer to process.
Thanks.
I just want my money back. I'll gladly agree to not participate in any lawsuits that come out of this once my money has been fully refunded. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I don't want this product on my machine and I'm not waiting 300 days to buy another AV software.0 -
And any comment on this little additive Valentin?
I did not quite understand where you want me to comment but I'll try to detail on two things:
1) alternative in compensation - interesting idea;
2) a 4 weeks backup situation - cannot say something at this point, we'll try to take it offline to identify the tickets and see what is the culprit here. Do you know who the user was? - you can send it via personal message. Or better yet, let him know to drop me a personal message with the ticket #.
Thanks.0 -
We are and will continue to reply on the emails. There are several options that we are assessing upon right now based upon the feedback we have received from you. You can continue to send the emails as initially mentioned, although it may take longer to process.
Thanks.
Is there anything that needs to be added to the email other than just having compensation in the subject line?0 -
@Midnight Rain
wow, i will have to spell this out for you because obviously once again you didn't "think before you type". Seems to be a common trend for you. So...
You said that they have a solution to handle ALL (i will repeat it for you, ALL) the other problems. How are Bitdefender going to undelete files that their application deleted and ensure that the software on my pc will work again. The answer is simple, they can't. How will they ensure all peoples PC's can boot up again. THe answer is simple, the can't. If you think "Reinstall the software" is a solution, or "Format your PC" is a solution...shame!!!! You might as we just say "Kill all people living with aids because then we wont need a cure once the have been eradicated". That is my point.
So once again Midnight Rain, "think before you type". What's wrong with you?
That was a self-addressed question, it wasn't pointed at anybody.
I was placing in contrast my situation (managed to escape unharmed by stopping the AV before patch and not rebooting until restoring files from quaranitne) with others who, indeed, have suffered great losses.
BD aren't going to undelete anything, unfortunately. There is a point after which you can't recover a system, regardless of how you lose your files. You can try several undelete applications, but that is a tedious process and, from what I've seen, BD only affected dll's and exe's. Your other documents are still there if you reinstall windows on top of that (as opposed to formatting).
What would you propose? If you can't use the restore points or the repair option, there isn't any magical software that will put you back in time to avoid this.0 -
I would like a FULL refund PLUS any compensation for taking this computer to get it fixed or whatever costs associated with fixing my computer that was ruined by this horrible patch. I should not have to pay one single dime for the mistakes made by SLOPPY management.
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Is there anything that needs to be added to the email other than just having compensation in the subject line?
I don't think that a specific email format was required initially. However, from the perspective of identifying the customer it is better to provide as much information as possible: for instance where you purchased from, email address, license key, the regular process.0 -
I don't think that a specific email format was required initially. However, from the perspective of identifying the customer it is better to provide as much information as possible: for instance where you purchased from, email address, license key, the regular process.
Ok, I sent one before asking if there was anything else needed, but no reply yet.0 -
I really was going to buy another license of BitDefender IS 2010 but... I'm still going!!
I've been using BitDefender almost 3 years never add a problem with the program itself or virus problems and it isn't because one problem that my trust is broken!
BitDefender gain my trust by protecting me flawless!
For all of you who want to change to kaspersky!! Well i used kaspersky in the past and I just have one thing to tell you
I'D MORE FALSE POSITIVES WITH Kaspersky THAN WITH THE FALSE-POSITIVE OF TROJAN.FAKEALERT.5 CRISIS!!
Hey all, I'm not looking to bleed Bit Defender dry with compensation, although I agree some form should be extended. However, at this point, I just want my laptop working like it was yesterday morning. I just bought this 5 months ago and am a little unsatisfied with the lack of customer support. I really am not pleased.
I am trying to stay positive and understanding, but my patience is wearing very thin.0 -
I am not a BD employee. Just like many others after this happened, this is my first visit on the BD forum, to check out the situation.
I can agree that an e-mail would have been very nice. Or even a message through BD's news service, which could have splashed a warning message right in the bottom right corner of the screen from the antivirus itself, no e-mail needed.
Some may have been deeply affected indeed.
But many, in my opinion, just had some files transferred to the quarantine, which could have easily been restored. My case, too.
I'm not saying BD is not to be held responsible. I'm just talking about a fair assessment of the actual damage this situation has produced.
Real viruses and trojans steal passwords, CC numbers, bank account info and so on. That's real damage. And that's where BD has been serving all of us for so many years by protecting our PCs from them.
What is your opinion?
I was lucky and just turned off my av and restored my quarantined items bc one BD found itself to be a trojan i knew someting was not right, but the problem is not that they could just restore the files in their quarantine folder its that some users deleted the folder and lost files and some ran scans and rebooted and lost what was in their quarantine folder some realized that they had to reformat then they found that all data was lost bc of a bad update, problem is that the files in the quarantine folder was thousands of files and some of the advice they were getting at the time made it worse. I get what you are saying but alot of customers here were waiting for some advice from BD which did not come for hours, I was on here as a guest watching in the begining and there was no one for hours giving any steps on what to do or even letting customers know that YES there is a problem with a update dont scan, dont reformat, dont delete anything in your quarantine folder and most of all dont reboot.0 -
Matthias H., thank you, for this initiative.
@all - While our team strives to finalize the recovery tool, let's brainstorm together about a compensation algorithm that will, at least, ease the pain of tonight's struggle. Perhaps we will be able to find, together, an acceptable incentive for your efforts supporting us here. After all, you as our customers and us, especially in support, were in this together.
well at this point, i lost my entire weekend, a year of college work and photos, and cannot even boot my computer to access backup. now i have to buy windows 7 to repair this disatser, since vista recovery dvd cannot help me. this is not my fault; it is bitdefender's. so, two day's lost productivity, windows 7 upgrade, plus compensation for my irreplaceable photos, i'm already out $300+ in ACTUAL LOSSES, plus my school work and photos, which i will never see again, on top of the fact that I DIDN'T FEEL LIKE DEALING WITH THIS CRAP ALL WEEKEND. i can't describe how much you guys have screwed me and lord knows how many others. you had better come up with a real compensation program (read: MONEY), otherwise someone who took it in the tailpipe worse than me is going to start a lawsuit...0 -
well at this point, i lost my entire weekend, a year of college work and photos, and cannot even boot my computer to access backup. now i have to buy windows 7 to repair this disatser, since vista recovery dvd cannot help me. this is not my fault; it is bitdefender's. so, two day's lost productivity, windows 7 upgrade, plus compensation for my irreplaceable photos, i'm already out $300+ in ACTUAL LOSSES, plus my school work and photos, which i will never see again, on top of the fact that I DIDN'T FEEL LIKE DEALING WITH THIS CRAP ALL WEEKEND. i can't describe how much you guys have screwed me and lord knows how many others. you had better come up with a real compensation program (read: MONEY), otherwise someone who took it in the tailpipe worse than me is going to start a lawsuit...
How did you lose your college work? Do you work in programming? Because these are the only type of files that got affected.
No one has lost any photos or music or movies. They are all still there. Unless you formated your computer, which, of course, is your own responsibility.
You can reinstall Windows on top of the old system files without formatting and you will find them there.0 -
Can I suggest that compensation not be the priority here. I'm seeing lots of posts saying "we will learn from this experience" but guys, regardless of what the users 'should have' when their files were quarantined, there are plenty of non tech savvy people out there who are probably still confused. Is it so hard to send out an email with some simple instructions and advice for the sake of people who are left stranded? Most people posting here, especially the ones claiming that no one should have trusted bit defender to be working correctly, are not caring about the average joe users.
Can someone on the BD staff please send a simple email out to help those people? I'm sure it would help many users who can still access email via other means.
Compensation discussions can come after the basic support obligations right?0 -
I was affected by this update and it took me a few hours to completely put my computer back to original condition.
On the issue of compensation, I do not want to see BitDefender go into bankrupcy because of a class action suit as no one benefits only the lawyers. Companies do make mistakes and I am willing to forgive them. But trust is definitely lost in this case and it will take time before users will put their confidence with them.
My suggestion?
1) Public apology with Press Release
2) Find out which users were affected by checking the logs. Only those users who downloaded the bad update were affected.
3) Compensate for the users who used professional services to recover their computers
4) Extend the subscription free of charge for the affected users (weed out users not involved) for 1 year
5) The CEO should explain in a video concrete steps to prevent such cases from happening again
6) Offer to refund all users who wish to pull out0 -
I agree with everything you say except that BitDefender is a good product and I reverse #2 and #1 because it isn't a good product. Spot on everything else though. GJ.
I disagree....I think BD is an excellent product. It isn't the product that screwed up our PC's, it was the human error and the lack of proper procedures that allowed a corrupt update to go out and affect our PC's much like a virus. Compensation???? Sure! Bitdefender should compensate us for our issues. Because at the end of the day, we are the customer. We don;t care what the problem is, we just want it fixed. But that doesn not mean we can't extemd to a company that has an excellent track record some level of loyalty. Customer Service? I agre that Bit Defender has shown very little in this area which I find unacceptable for any company...especially one that is as reputable as Bit Defender.
First, they must fix the issue for ALL users.
Second, dramatcially improve their customer service skills (I think a posting of the improvements that management intends to implement isn't too muchg to ask for here).
Third, compensate (to a certain degree) all those affected.
Lastly, upper management needs to get involved and start some damage control before they too many customers. Not hearing from them is an insult to my intelligence and really ###### me off. I am loyal, but to the extent that I enjoy being ignored. Granted, I understand that they are swamped by millions of irate customers. However, again, I am the customer and I don't care that they have to pay overtime, work employees 24/7, etc. just fix the problem ASAP.0 -
Hey all, I'm not looking to bleed Bit Defender dry with compensation, although I agree some form should be extended. However, at this point, I just want my laptop working like it was yesterday morning. I just bought this 5 months ago and am a little unsatisfied with the lack of customer support. I really am not pleased.
I am trying to stay positive and understanding, but my patience is wearing very thin.
Have you discussed with my colleagues on the other topic? We're trying to answer as many posts as we can and keep the topics as specific as possible. Please ask my colleagues here about your issue, here: http://forum.bitdefender.com/index.php?showtopic=18759.
Thank you.0 -
My dear fellow Bitdefender users,
Could we be a little matur.e about this? Some people have suffered more than others and there should be a good compensation. Bitdefender will (I guess) make everyone (most of us) happy (I hope). I lost 14 hours myself of figuring out, checking 15 PC's and repair.
Situation before Trojan.Fakealert.5
Bitdefender is a good product and rated very well. A lot of us love(d) this product. Right?
Than came Trojan.Fakealert.5- Fact: Bitdefender messed up not testing the update
- Lesson to learn: It would have been nice to get an e-mail immediately to tell me there is "something wrong and they are working on it" and what to do in the meanwhile. => keeping the users informed every xx minutes
- Because of point 2 Bitdefender will (I hope/guess) compensate and will make most affected users happy again.
- Everyone can make errors but some are not tolerated (like this one).
- If you throw away a good product because they made an error ... what would life be if everyone would think so. We would have nothing left.
- I didn't over-react and started re-installing PC's ... I waited. I trusted Bitdefender that there would be a solution soon. So I just disabled anti-virus and restored the quarantined files manually.
- Today ... the solution is there and happily for me ... no real harm was done. Over-reacting and immediately re-install PC's is ... not such a good idea (sorry)
After the disaster
The show must go on and Bitdefender will recover and learn about this case.
LESSON 1, 2 and 3 => Communication, communication and communication.
Compensations could be:- Free 3 extra years license for all affected people
- Refund
- Maybe in some cases a payment of some kind of fee
For all the people who doesn't like the above text
Keep in mind that computers cost time all the time. Many things can go wrong. Data can be lost and costs lots more than this error.
However, I still trust Bitdefender and will stay. I go for compensation 1.
Kind Regards
Filips Houbrechts
IT Consultant
Nice little plug for yourself.
You are, of course, absolutely right.
As I was also affected by this c*ckup I agree with everybody here, that there should be a compensation.
You mention an added 3 years to the license, others mention a 1 year extension.
I think somewhere along those lines should be sufficient for those who managed to repair their systems.
I must say that in my case, I wasn't affected very badly, it took me all of 5 minutes to correct the problem since I wasn't using that computer at the time [which was running, and running BD TS, and it did the auto update to the faulty update].
I got a call from a friend of mine [a member here] who alerted me to the problem, so for me, hardly any harm done, just a couple of problems, alerts and quarantined files, no biggie [thank you again, BW !!]
I think we should have a little patience, and let BD work out all the problems and a final explanation of how this all could've happened.
I feel very sorry for those who were affected more severely, I hope you guys will get up and running asap.0
